I don’t know that we’re winning, but we’re definitely forcing them to reevaluate their Risk vs Benefit analysis.
There’s a lot of palace intrigue going on in the WH periphery right now. Some of the wackiest players are starting to have limits defined for them.
The Body Cam thing is all BS. They’re just documenting their operatives impunity in a more precise manner. The Cams were just to enrich a GOP donor anyhow.
Schumer never intended to bring any pain regarding ICE… his prime motivation was to split up any leverage the Dems might have to shepherd the Israel aid package through. Can’t figure out whether he or Trump more accurately and acutely classify as an asset of a foreign state.
The Homan thing is just a rebranding reset. Why TF aren’t the Dems wrapping up every presser discussing why they can’t afford the $50K in a paper bag it takes to get Homan’s attention is beyond me. Paper Bags are cheap, fake bills are plentiful… don’t they have any media advisers?
Respectfully disagree regarding the Tail / Dog analogy.
I’ve been involved in the issue peripherally since the 1980’s. Personally and directly since 1994.
Sure… you can go back to periods in which the US was calling the shots and enabling its worst practices and policies. Biden’s craven speech regarding “If Israel did not exist” pandering is just one historical reference.
As this whole Epstein horror show plays out, more will come to light regarding the shift from Israel being an operative of US policy to becoming the operator. I could go on for days regarding the evidence, but that’s too much for this format.
None of this is an argument to excuse US complicity, but simply to provide context as to which entity is actually setting policy. Do you feel Biden was the force in pursuing an Israel policy not only contrary to US interest but that completely alienated him from a substantial block of Democratic voters (his consulting staff knew it would, and that they would lose, but they were fine with it, BTW).
Most recently, Schumer intentionally disarmed any leverage the Dems would have had to force ICE reforms / abolishment simply to push through a substantial aid package for Israel. Do you argue that by performing that bit of political malpractice Schumer was inflicting US policy goals upon Israel?
I mean… the mask is completely gone at this point.
Either way, thanks for your response. Best of luck.
You’re assuming the good faith on the democrats to actually want power. They don’t want power. They want to preserve the capitalist system they ultimate profit off of, whether in power or not. You’re focusing too much on individual behavior within the system.
I think you just answered your own question about Biden with his senate quote.
Israel is an asset of the US. There’s an often seen narrative that Israel is wagging the dog, but it’s just a distraction from the 250 year old empire that has literally “pioneered” nearly everything Israel has done in its meager 78 years. The US gov and military industry profits immensely from the aircraft carrier and live weapons lab it has created in the middle of the Middle East, at the horrific expense of Palestinians, Arabs, and Jews.
The weapons trade is insidious. Am guessing Palantir is fluffing their UKR work to the SecDef’s new agile procurement process. Ironic SecDef seem anti-ukr and pro-rus.
Each ICE agent gets 17.88 devices to subdue those awful immigrants. Even "crowd control" weapons. Give me a break. Those weapons should never have been sent to Minneapolis in the first place.
Politicians have no business taking credit for any of this. It's the citizens of Minneapolis who have stood up.
My least popular opinion is that law enforcement must wear large ID badges with clearly visible easy to read numbers. True of any law enforcement officer. Many people taken by ICE have reported getting Covid, measles and other serious contagions. I understand the sinister history of masks on cops, but if you make masks the villain, you not only make vulnerable people sick, you make it much easier for state power to outlaw masked protest and all types of anonymous protest, which is everyone's human right.
Obviously N95s would be better and certainly they are not wearing masks to protect detainees. But I think the masks they are wearing will block contagions if the agent is infectious. I would prefer to be arrested by a masked cop than an unmasked one! And I repeat my concern about the right to anonymous protest and anonymous political participation. It's not about "cowards who won't show their faces" -- which can be turned against anybody It's a right. But law enforcement (with clear rare exceptions) doesn't have a right to be unidentifiable.
Good point. But do you really think ICE agents give a fig about protecting the masses from disease? Nevertheless, your observation about the possibility of a general ban on masked protest does create a conundrum.
I think ICE agents want to protect themselves and their families from doxxing and certainly possible many of them want to look menacing. Possibly some of the also think immigrants carry diseases (although medical masks don't seem to be the fashion among ICE agents). I think ICE should be abolished. But I think if you want to be able to identify and hold state agents of any kind accountable, they all should be wearing big numbered badges everybody can read and photograph at all times. Like sports jerseys.
"Law enforcement" does not arm itself to the teeth like a military unit nor does it prepare to attack law abiding citizens. As does their commander in chief, these goons believe and act like they are above the law, that protocols do not matter, that the people are all potential enemies. They believe their actions carry no consequences to themselves. Let's We the People prove otherwise.
Unfortunately, law enforcement does do this. Regularly. Everything we’re seeing now is just an extension of the authoritarian practices of police departments and sheriff’s departments across the country. Which is why it should be no surprise that the police are coordinating with and assisting ICE. (Including terrorizing and tear-gassing protesters and bystanders.)
Without a doubt the shooters of Pretti and Good need to face accountability. But just as importantly their superiors do, all the way up the line, each link in the chain.
I just became a subscriber to your Substack today. I feel like you’re one of the few investigative journalists left out there and we need people like you to keep going. I try to convince my boomer ex-hippie mom to subscribe too!
Jamelle Bouie of the NYT called this confrontation the equivalent of the Battle of Gettysburg that began the long defeat of the Confederacy, with the citizens of Minneapolis playing the role of the Union Army and ICE playing the role of Robert E. Lee. Well, Jamelle is something of a Civil War freak , but I will accept both his and your conclusions. Guess what kiddies. DJT is not god after all. All glory and all credit goes to the valiant people of Minneapolis. As for the rest of us, let's chase Trump to his Appomattox.
We have not seen the same horror that led up to Gettysburg. Nor do we have a fully mobilized industrial base supporting the ‘war.’ Strained analogy in my mind. But MN resistance gives hope.
Does anyone at Department of Homeland Security have an opinion as to why so many of its 'troops' have gone to Minneapolis?
It seems "Metro Surge" began as a response to Clown Ass Nick Shirley's phony stories about Somali fraud. A 2 & a half minute Google search + basic math will show you there are a minuscule number of undocumented Somalis in Minnesota. It will also show there are 13 undocumented immigrants in Florida for everyone in Minnesota. The numbers are even more out of whack for California & Texas.
If the issue is fraud, why isn't the federal government sending forensic accountants & auditors?
If there are people at DHS who are genuinely concerned about too many undocumented people in the United States, wouldn't they be upset resources are going where undocumented people AREN'T?
Has nothing to do with logic. It’s about raw power, white supremacy, Christian nationalism and preparing to declare a national security emergency during the midterms. At least that seems to be what POTUS is preparing us for with his words.
I agree with you especially in terms of the top political leadership in the executive branch- events in Minnesota have been a political theater performance for them. I just believe there are some civil servants in the Department of Homeland Security who want to see immigration laws enforced and enforced efficiently. I wonder if anyone Ken spoke with expressed any displeasure about the bizarre choice of Minneapolis/ St. Paul as the venue for a national showdown over immigration.
To view this as a win-lose event missed the point that there are no winners and losers regardless of the outcome. The rough but necessary job or exporting criminals has been made more difficult by organized opposition groups, and federal law enforcement has been pushed to react and use tactics that I’m sure many of them would have preferred to avoid. The situation was clearly untenable and no one should be rejoicing that we’re at this point. We all lost. The communities of Minnesota that were overrun by both federal law enforcement and protesters from outside the state, and their peace shattered. They lost. The protesters who lost their lives, their voices, the trust
of a public who saw them get in the way of capturing and deporting dangerous people. They lost. Federal law enforcement who had a tough job to do but instead had to get caught up in altercations with protesters defaming and blaming them for enforcing the laws of the land they were sworn to uphold. As well, some lost the trust of their peers and supervisors because how poorly they reacted to the adversity. They lost. No winners here.
I’m heartened by your reporting saying that ICE will approach the situation in a more targeted manner. On the other side of this, I would be equally heartened to see leaked information from the organized protesting groups, saying that they would also begin to stand down and let ICE do their job when ICE takes a less indiscriminate approach.
Neither side’s behavior has been exemplary nor worthy of medals or praise, and it’s time to get back to focusing on solving our illegal immigration and gov’t fraud problems. This needs to happen before the states start raising taxes again, when we know there’s plenty of money being siphoned out of the system.
As always, thanks for your excellent reporting, Ken.
Very thoughtful post. I do agree that none of the individuals caught up in this in any fashion "won." It's a tragedy all the way around.
But I do think proving that ICE has limits on its ability to terrorize an American population was a win for liberty. And perhaps a loss for people like Stephen Miller, who has open authoritarian desires. It depends on what happens next. DHS and DOJ may just lick their wounds and return redoubled with better tactics in a new location. Or they may take this as a fundamental failure and try less to intimidate civilians and do more targeted enforcementy. If we can just get ICE to take off the masks, that would be a huge win in my book.
They never would have been there in such force had Minnesota law enforcement been cooperative from the outset, like they have been in many other cities and states. Steven Miller is a jerk, no doubt about that, but he’s been enabled when the situation was aggravated by Gov. Walz’s reluctance to allow or facilitate their ability to do their jobs peacefully (like handing over criminals before they were let go from jail, for example). Those protesting cannot make a proper case that most Americans can agree with on why people who have broken the law and jumped to the front of the immigration line, should be permitted to stay. There’s not even a good moral argument for it. Note, the draw down is coming in part because of the new cooperation with local law enforcement that’s taking place.
“Love your neighbor as yourself” is a foundational principle of Christianity and similar ideals are part of most religions. Loving your neighbor, protecting them from masked thugs who wish them harm, feeding them, sheltering them all seem like moral acts to me.
You bring up a good ethical question. Is it moral to allow people who chose to break the law and have chosen to violate the rights of those who are patiently waiting their turn? No doubt, one immoral act does not justify another, but it’s probably best to view this outside of the morality spectrum. Simply said, every country or humanity more broadly, fundamentally exists in a state of the moral/immoral dichotomy. If you’re in favor of this illegal immigration, how many people will you be taking in? It’s why in cases like this illegal immigration, it’s not a useful construct to work from. Let’s say I agree, the MN mayor and governor are moral, how does that change anything? How many illegal immigrants should be allowed to enter and stay in our country? 1,000? 10,000? 100,000? 1,000,000? 10,000,000? What’s the moral principle by which this number can be decided? Is it moral for those coming here to expect to come here and be handed food, money and a place to live just for getting here? Is it fair that where we have established rules for who gets help, others decide that they are worthy and will take advantage of lackluster enforcement situation? I probably should have said that the governor and mayor have not made a legal argument for their behavior and for their incitement.
As for your reference to “masked thugs”, i’m guessing that you’re ideologically driven as well, because this is begging the question. It’s been clearly articulated that people have been threatening the lives of ICE agents and their families. They signed up to help uphold our laws and deal with the risks associated with capturing people, some of whom are armed and dangerous criminals. They didn’t sign up for the added danger of having unhinged organized agitators threaten theirs and their families’ lives. Hence, the masks 😉
The police in the United States don’t wear masks. A fundamental part of our legal and moral system here is that government agents are accountable. Snatching people while not identifying yourself and while hiding your face is thuggish and authoritarian behavior. As an American Patriot dedicated to liberty I recoil from this instinctively, as do most of my fellow Americans.
The police don’t wear masks and they are at much greater risk than ICE. I was a paratrooper in the 82nd Airborne Division and we men wore masks. ICE wears masks for the same reason Anita does: they don’t want to be accountable for their actions. They also want to create fear.
I think if you were honest about how Americans feel about liberty you would feel the same way.
OK, so does this whole thing boil down to them wearing masks? Just asking since you didn’t response to my main point around the legality of what’s been happening?
On a side note, in cities and states where law enforcement is working with ICE, we don’t see any of the insanity we see in Minnesota and Portland. Interesting, no?
Yes my main beef with ICE is that they don’t share their identity, which is an invitation to abuse.
Addressing your comments about the morality of what our personal response to ICE is: I don’t really care what Trump does. I think he’s an asshole and his immigration policy is inhumane and immoral. I didn’t like Biden’s immigration policy either. I think they are both weenies.I also know that no one in Washington DC cares what i think.
If I was King we would have a more humane immigration policy that would accept more immigrants and they would be better educated and more likely to contribute and not require taxpayer money.
But I’m not the King. I live in the real world, or at least try to. The power i do have is in my community, with my neighbors. I will do my best to treat them with love and humility, no matter their immigration status. I guess I could treat them like crap and make them feel unwelcome in hopes that they would leave. But I don’t want to treat people that way and would b behaving immoral in my understanding of the what that means.
@Ken Klippenstein , just ran into this Substack post that appears to add some additional context to why Homan is pulling ICE agents out of Minnesota. It appears that local (county) law enforcement there is now cooperating with ICE. See: https://substack.com/home/post/p-186906171
My understanding is that MN law enforcement has routinely cooperated with federal authorities in releasing criminals to ice for deportation. Nothing new or a change.
I believe they may be trying to now switch strategies, trying to assign resources that were going into these cities against protestors, instead to now trying to rig the election with a campaign of voter intimidation nationwide.
Depends maybe on how you define "white" but the 2 agents identified as the shooters of Alex Pretti are named Jesus Ochoa and Raymundo Gutierrez.
Some of the best educated "high IQ" in the world sign up to work as torturers in our country and Israel and other places. Was true in UK, Nazi Germany etc.
Faces of the protesters are also all over websites, marked as targets for retribution.
The body camera thing is such bullshit. The murderer of Renée Good was filming it. The protesters and legal observers are already filming everything,and even so the government just flat out lies like Israel even when we can see the videos with our own eyes - it’s not like they are going to punish these ICE thugs for their lawlessness.
Don’t believe the body cam footage from Pretti murder has been released yet though that would be pretty typical for law enforcement to do. So think your skepticism is valid.
What exactly were they even going to "crackdown" on? I mean, it's not like there were any rioters or anything and sending in so many untrained and clueless armed thugs would just invite a disaster worse than just two people.
The deal depended on "cooperation" with the Minnesota authorities to turn over all the immigrants already jailed by ICE. Is this a victory? At the same time the info here is absolutely essential to understand how much this is a real retreat, what kind of win for us, rather than a PR opportunity for Trump.
I don’t know that we’re winning, but we’re definitely forcing them to reevaluate their Risk vs Benefit analysis.
There’s a lot of palace intrigue going on in the WH periphery right now. Some of the wackiest players are starting to have limits defined for them.
The Body Cam thing is all BS. They’re just documenting their operatives impunity in a more precise manner. The Cams were just to enrich a GOP donor anyhow.
Schumer never intended to bring any pain regarding ICE… his prime motivation was to split up any leverage the Dems might have to shepherd the Israel aid package through. Can’t figure out whether he or Trump more accurately and acutely classify as an asset of a foreign state.
The Homan thing is just a rebranding reset. Why TF aren’t the Dems wrapping up every presser discussing why they can’t afford the $50K in a paper bag it takes to get Homan’s attention is beyond me. Paper Bags are cheap, fake bills are plentiful… don’t they have any media advisers?
Thanks again Ken. All the best.
Respectfully disagree regarding the Tail / Dog analogy.
I’ve been involved in the issue peripherally since the 1980’s. Personally and directly since 1994.
Sure… you can go back to periods in which the US was calling the shots and enabling its worst practices and policies. Biden’s craven speech regarding “If Israel did not exist” pandering is just one historical reference.
As this whole Epstein horror show plays out, more will come to light regarding the shift from Israel being an operative of US policy to becoming the operator. I could go on for days regarding the evidence, but that’s too much for this format.
None of this is an argument to excuse US complicity, but simply to provide context as to which entity is actually setting policy. Do you feel Biden was the force in pursuing an Israel policy not only contrary to US interest but that completely alienated him from a substantial block of Democratic voters (his consulting staff knew it would, and that they would lose, but they were fine with it, BTW).
Most recently, Schumer intentionally disarmed any leverage the Dems would have had to force ICE reforms / abolishment simply to push through a substantial aid package for Israel. Do you argue that by performing that bit of political malpractice Schumer was inflicting US policy goals upon Israel?
I mean… the mask is completely gone at this point.
Either way, thanks for your response. Best of luck.
You’re assuming the good faith on the democrats to actually want power. They don’t want power. They want to preserve the capitalist system they ultimate profit off of, whether in power or not. You’re focusing too much on individual behavior within the system.
I think you just answered your own question about Biden with his senate quote.
For more elaboration:
https://open.substack.com/pub/exenophontos/p/managed-outrage-under-capitalism
Israel is an asset of the US. There’s an often seen narrative that Israel is wagging the dog, but it’s just a distraction from the 250 year old empire that has literally “pioneered” nearly everything Israel has done in its meager 78 years. The US gov and military industry profits immensely from the aircraft carrier and live weapons lab it has created in the middle of the Middle East, at the horrific expense of Palestinians, Arabs, and Jews.
The weapons trade is insidious. Am guessing Palantir is fluffing their UKR work to the SecDef’s new agile procurement process. Ironic SecDef seem anti-ukr and pro-rus.
They still need to take off those damn masks.
Each ICE agent gets 17.88 devices to subdue those awful immigrants. Even "crowd control" weapons. Give me a break. Those weapons should never have been sent to Minneapolis in the first place.
Politicians have no business taking credit for any of this. It's the citizens of Minneapolis who have stood up.
100% agree and this is the beginning for other City's.
My least popular opinion is that law enforcement must wear large ID badges with clearly visible easy to read numbers. True of any law enforcement officer. Many people taken by ICE have reported getting Covid, measles and other serious contagions. I understand the sinister history of masks on cops, but if you make masks the villain, you not only make vulnerable people sick, you make it much easier for state power to outlaw masked protest and all types of anonymous protest, which is everyone's human right.
I don't think the kind of masks they're wearing help with disease spread.
Obviously N95s would be better and certainly they are not wearing masks to protect detainees. But I think the masks they are wearing will block contagions if the agent is infectious. I would prefer to be arrested by a masked cop than an unmasked one! And I repeat my concern about the right to anonymous protest and anonymous political participation. It's not about "cowards who won't show their faces" -- which can be turned against anybody It's a right. But law enforcement (with clear rare exceptions) doesn't have a right to be unidentifiable.
Good point. But do you really think ICE agents give a fig about protecting the masses from disease? Nevertheless, your observation about the possibility of a general ban on masked protest does create a conundrum.
I think ICE agents want to protect themselves and their families from doxxing and certainly possible many of them want to look menacing. Possibly some of the also think immigrants carry diseases (although medical masks don't seem to be the fashion among ICE agents). I think ICE should be abolished. But I think if you want to be able to identify and hold state agents of any kind accountable, they all should be wearing big numbered badges everybody can read and photograph at all times. Like sports jerseys.
"Law enforcement" does not arm itself to the teeth like a military unit nor does it prepare to attack law abiding citizens. As does their commander in chief, these goons believe and act like they are above the law, that protocols do not matter, that the people are all potential enemies. They believe their actions carry no consequences to themselves. Let's We the People prove otherwise.
Unfortunately, law enforcement does do this. Regularly. Everything we’re seeing now is just an extension of the authoritarian practices of police departments and sheriff’s departments across the country. Which is why it should be no surprise that the police are coordinating with and assisting ICE. (Including terrorizing and tear-gassing protesters and bystanders.)
I was speaking ideally and legally. Am well aware of police abuse and state violence American style.
Important to celebrate the victories and give credit to the people who protested.
So true. Heroism. Deserves applause and celebration.
Great reporting Ken
Without a doubt the shooters of Pretti and Good need to face accountability. But just as importantly their superiors do, all the way up the line, each link in the chain.
Great interview today on Majority Report!
thanks!
I just became a subscriber to your Substack today. I feel like you’re one of the few investigative journalists left out there and we need people like you to keep going. I try to convince my boomer ex-hippie mom to subscribe too!
Jamelle Bouie of the NYT called this confrontation the equivalent of the Battle of Gettysburg that began the long defeat of the Confederacy, with the citizens of Minneapolis playing the role of the Union Army and ICE playing the role of Robert E. Lee. Well, Jamelle is something of a Civil War freak , but I will accept both his and your conclusions. Guess what kiddies. DJT is not god after all. All glory and all credit goes to the valiant people of Minneapolis. As for the rest of us, let's chase Trump to his Appomattox.
We have not seen the same horror that led up to Gettysburg. Nor do we have a fully mobilized industrial base supporting the ‘war.’ Strained analogy in my mind. But MN resistance gives hope.
Jamelle Bouie makes facile historical analogies to lull people into joining him in complacent denial.
Does anyone at Department of Homeland Security have an opinion as to why so many of its 'troops' have gone to Minneapolis?
It seems "Metro Surge" began as a response to Clown Ass Nick Shirley's phony stories about Somali fraud. A 2 & a half minute Google search + basic math will show you there are a minuscule number of undocumented Somalis in Minnesota. It will also show there are 13 undocumented immigrants in Florida for everyone in Minnesota. The numbers are even more out of whack for California & Texas.
If the issue is fraud, why isn't the federal government sending forensic accountants & auditors?
If there are people at DHS who are genuinely concerned about too many undocumented people in the United States, wouldn't they be upset resources are going where undocumented people AREN'T?
Has nothing to do with logic. It’s about raw power, white supremacy, Christian nationalism and preparing to declare a national security emergency during the midterms. At least that seems to be what POTUS is preparing us for with his words.
I agree with you especially in terms of the top political leadership in the executive branch- events in Minnesota have been a political theater performance for them. I just believe there are some civil servants in the Department of Homeland Security who want to see immigration laws enforced and enforced efficiently. I wonder if anyone Ken spoke with expressed any displeasure about the bizarre choice of Minneapolis/ St. Paul as the venue for a national showdown over immigration.
They could theoretically launch the tear gas at all those criminal migrants, I guess?
they could use butterfly nets too but that's not what they're for!
We are forming a more perfect union.
To view this as a win-lose event missed the point that there are no winners and losers regardless of the outcome. The rough but necessary job or exporting criminals has been made more difficult by organized opposition groups, and federal law enforcement has been pushed to react and use tactics that I’m sure many of them would have preferred to avoid. The situation was clearly untenable and no one should be rejoicing that we’re at this point. We all lost. The communities of Minnesota that were overrun by both federal law enforcement and protesters from outside the state, and their peace shattered. They lost. The protesters who lost their lives, their voices, the trust
of a public who saw them get in the way of capturing and deporting dangerous people. They lost. Federal law enforcement who had a tough job to do but instead had to get caught up in altercations with protesters defaming and blaming them for enforcing the laws of the land they were sworn to uphold. As well, some lost the trust of their peers and supervisors because how poorly they reacted to the adversity. They lost. No winners here.
I’m heartened by your reporting saying that ICE will approach the situation in a more targeted manner. On the other side of this, I would be equally heartened to see leaked information from the organized protesting groups, saying that they would also begin to stand down and let ICE do their job when ICE takes a less indiscriminate approach.
Neither side’s behavior has been exemplary nor worthy of medals or praise, and it’s time to get back to focusing on solving our illegal immigration and gov’t fraud problems. This needs to happen before the states start raising taxes again, when we know there’s plenty of money being siphoned out of the system.
As always, thanks for your excellent reporting, Ken.
Very thoughtful post. I do agree that none of the individuals caught up in this in any fashion "won." It's a tragedy all the way around.
But I do think proving that ICE has limits on its ability to terrorize an American population was a win for liberty. And perhaps a loss for people like Stephen Miller, who has open authoritarian desires. It depends on what happens next. DHS and DOJ may just lick their wounds and return redoubled with better tactics in a new location. Or they may take this as a fundamental failure and try less to intimidate civilians and do more targeted enforcementy. If we can just get ICE to take off the masks, that would be a huge win in my book.
They never would have been there in such force had Minnesota law enforcement been cooperative from the outset, like they have been in many other cities and states. Steven Miller is a jerk, no doubt about that, but he’s been enabled when the situation was aggravated by Gov. Walz’s reluctance to allow or facilitate their ability to do their jobs peacefully (like handing over criminals before they were let go from jail, for example). Those protesting cannot make a proper case that most Americans can agree with on why people who have broken the law and jumped to the front of the immigration line, should be permitted to stay. There’s not even a good moral argument for it. Note, the draw down is coming in part because of the new cooperation with local law enforcement that’s taking place.
“Love your neighbor as yourself” is a foundational principle of Christianity and similar ideals are part of most religions. Loving your neighbor, protecting them from masked thugs who wish them harm, feeding them, sheltering them all seem like moral acts to me.
Why do they seem immoral to you?
You bring up a good ethical question. Is it moral to allow people who chose to break the law and have chosen to violate the rights of those who are patiently waiting their turn? No doubt, one immoral act does not justify another, but it’s probably best to view this outside of the morality spectrum. Simply said, every country or humanity more broadly, fundamentally exists in a state of the moral/immoral dichotomy. If you’re in favor of this illegal immigration, how many people will you be taking in? It’s why in cases like this illegal immigration, it’s not a useful construct to work from. Let’s say I agree, the MN mayor and governor are moral, how does that change anything? How many illegal immigrants should be allowed to enter and stay in our country? 1,000? 10,000? 100,000? 1,000,000? 10,000,000? What’s the moral principle by which this number can be decided? Is it moral for those coming here to expect to come here and be handed food, money and a place to live just for getting here? Is it fair that where we have established rules for who gets help, others decide that they are worthy and will take advantage of lackluster enforcement situation? I probably should have said that the governor and mayor have not made a legal argument for their behavior and for their incitement.
As for your reference to “masked thugs”, i’m guessing that you’re ideologically driven as well, because this is begging the question. It’s been clearly articulated that people have been threatening the lives of ICE agents and their families. They signed up to help uphold our laws and deal with the risks associated with capturing people, some of whom are armed and dangerous criminals. They didn’t sign up for the added danger of having unhinged organized agitators threaten theirs and their families’ lives. Hence, the masks 😉
The police in the United States don’t wear masks. A fundamental part of our legal and moral system here is that government agents are accountable. Snatching people while not identifying yourself and while hiding your face is thuggish and authoritarian behavior. As an American Patriot dedicated to liberty I recoil from this instinctively, as do most of my fellow Americans.
The police don’t wear masks and they are at much greater risk than ICE. I was a paratrooper in the 82nd Airborne Division and we men wore masks. ICE wears masks for the same reason Anita does: they don’t want to be accountable for their actions. They also want to create fear.
I think if you were honest about how Americans feel about liberty you would feel the same way.
OK, so does this whole thing boil down to them wearing masks? Just asking since you didn’t response to my main point around the legality of what’s been happening?
On a side note, in cities and states where law enforcement is working with ICE, we don’t see any of the insanity we see in Minnesota and Portland. Interesting, no?
Yes my main beef with ICE is that they don’t share their identity, which is an invitation to abuse.
Addressing your comments about the morality of what our personal response to ICE is: I don’t really care what Trump does. I think he’s an asshole and his immigration policy is inhumane and immoral. I didn’t like Biden’s immigration policy either. I think they are both weenies.I also know that no one in Washington DC cares what i think.
If I was King we would have a more humane immigration policy that would accept more immigrants and they would be better educated and more likely to contribute and not require taxpayer money.
But I’m not the King. I live in the real world, or at least try to. The power i do have is in my community, with my neighbors. I will do my best to treat them with love and humility, no matter their immigration status. I guess I could treat them like crap and make them feel unwelcome in hopes that they would leave. But I don’t want to treat people that way and would b behaving immoral in my understanding of the what that means.
@Ken Klippenstein , just ran into this Substack post that appears to add some additional context to why Homan is pulling ICE agents out of Minnesota. It appears that local (county) law enforcement there is now cooperating with ICE. See: https://substack.com/home/post/p-186906171
My understanding is that MN law enforcement has routinely cooperated with federal authorities in releasing criminals to ice for deportation. Nothing new or a change.
Certainly not the rhetoric we heard from Gov. Tim Walz, but I may be mistaken.
I believe they may be trying to now switch strategies, trying to assign resources that were going into these cities against protestors, instead to now trying to rig the election with a campaign of voter intimidation nationwide.
I have questions dear Ken:
Do we know who signs up to work in ICE?
Are the all white?
What is the average intelligence of ICE people?
Do they know that their faces are all over websites?
Do their girlfriends/husbands/kids know what they are doing?
I would like an 'in depth' study of these people who are fighting Americans and this stash of weapons where are they now?
I'm not Ken but here's some info:
Depends maybe on how you define "white" but the 2 agents identified as the shooters of Alex Pretti are named Jesus Ochoa and Raymundo Gutierrez.
Some of the best educated "high IQ" in the world sign up to work as torturers in our country and Israel and other places. Was true in UK, Nazi Germany etc.
Faces of the protesters are also all over websites, marked as targets for retribution.
Thanks Kathleen. Wow.
The body camera thing is such bullshit. The murderer of Renée Good was filming it. The protesters and legal observers are already filming everything,and even so the government just flat out lies like Israel even when we can see the videos with our own eyes - it’s not like they are going to punish these ICE thugs for their lawlessness.
Don’t believe the body cam footage from Pretti murder has been released yet though that would be pretty typical for law enforcement to do. So think your skepticism is valid.
There wasn’t body cam footage. The asshole was filming the encounter with his cell phone. And it was released.
What exactly were they even going to "crackdown" on? I mean, it's not like there were any rioters or anything and sending in so many untrained and clueless armed thugs would just invite a disaster worse than just two people.
The deal depended on "cooperation" with the Minnesota authorities to turn over all the immigrants already jailed by ICE. Is this a victory? At the same time the info here is absolutely essential to understand how much this is a real retreat, what kind of win for us, rather than a PR opportunity for Trump.