40 Comments
User's avatar
Tim DeBenedictis's avatar

Ken I appreciate your reporting in general but our perspectives disagree strongly here. In this war there is a clear aggressor (Russia) and a clear victim (Ukraine). Ukraine voluntarily gave up its nuclear weapons in 2001 in return for guarantees that Russia would respect its sovereignty. Russia annexed Crimea in 2014, which Putin swore he would never do. In the run-up to the 2022 invasion, Putin repeatedly denied he would invade Ukraine, and then that's exactly what he did. Putin is a proven liar and aggressor. His claim that a special military operation was required to clean Nazis out of Ukraine is a laughably false as Donald Trump claiming that immigrants are eating our pets. Putin cannot be trusted, and neither can "we will take Greenland and Gaza" Trump. I see no reason to believe Putin will stop at the current lines of conflict in Ukraine, perhaps after a few years of regrouping his badly-battered forces. I see no reason he won't stop with Lithuania, or Latvia, or eventually Poland, or Finland. This kind of man cannot be trusted, and a peace deal means nothing to him. Zelensky understands this, and Biden understood it. Apparently you don't. I don't believe for a minute that Donald Trump has discovered pacifism, or a new found respect for human life. This is all a cover for the truth - which Is that he and Putin have colluded to redraw the borders of European vs. Russian influence, in return for ... who knows what? Even if I'm wrong about this, the message and precedent that we set by abandoning allies whom we formerly said we'd support to the bitter end, is a cowardly message and a terrible precent. You're an excellent reporter. I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of what's really going on here. Do better.

Expand full comment
Larez121's avatar

Because it's true. Since the end of the Cold War Russia has been given promises by USA officially and unofficially that NATO wouldn't expand east. US and NATO lied over and over again. As NATO added more and more east bloc countries including former Soviet Republics, Russia complained, and said Ukraine was a red line. Why is Russia so concerned about Ukraine? Because it's where the very flat Asian steppes begin, a perfect place for an invading army. Napoleon and Hitler did just that. Both invasions killed millions of Russians.

USA didn't tolerate Cuba having Russian nukes and military. Why would Russia tolerate US nukes and military in Ukraine, historically their biggest geographical military weakness? Plus NATO has only been an offensive organization and tool of the US empire. It aided US invasions and bombing of Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, and Libya. The US Ruling Class wants to conquer Russia and balkanize it to exploit its estimated at a minimum $70 trillion worth of oil, gas, minerals, and metals.

Expand full comment
Tim DeBenedictis's avatar

I've heard this "NATO provoked Russia's invasion" narrative before. Maybe there is some element of truth to it. Russia is clearly quite paranoid. But ... there are some problems with your analogies. Hitler and Napoleon weren't North American. The US didn't station nuclear weapons in Ukraine before the 2014 or 2022 invasions, so the Cuba analogy is false. The NATO-supported invasion of Afghanistan (and, although under false pretenses, Iraq) were responses to the 9/11 attacks on the US; they were not unprovoked. I wouldn't put it past some elements of the US ruling class to want access to Ukrainian natural resources ... but THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE RUSSIAN RULING CLASS WANTS, TOO. And quite likely a big part of why Russia invaded. Bottom line is, Russia started this Ukraine war. We did not. You can spin this around any way you like, but you will never convince me that the aggressor in this particular conflict is actually the victim.

Expand full comment
Larez121's avatar

Our corrupt government and media conveniently forget to mention that Afghanistan offered to hand over Osama Bin Laden. They wanted to avoid a US invasion. Russia's invasion IS illegal. As illegal as our invasions and occupations of Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria.

So why did Russia invade? Because we couped Ukraine in 2014, the Maidan Coup. Ukraine's Zelensky is a US puppet. Russia has tried peaceful ways, like the Minsk Accords. But the US puppets in Ukraine since 2014 refuse to implement the Minsk Accords.

It's an apt comparison. Russia knows NATO countries host US missiles and military. They have good reason to be wary because US is building missile sites in Poland and already have missiles and miliary in the Baltic NATO countries. Added with the fact Ukraine is their biggest geograhical weakness, Russia chose war after eight years of negotiations that went nowhere.

Expand full comment
JennyStokes's avatar

I guess there was NO Maidan coup and the war was NOT financed by the USA!

Expand full comment
Tim DeBenedictis's avatar

You and I will never know the inner details of what actually happened here, or who financed what. All I can tell you is this: I happen to know, personally, three people of Ukrainian descent, two of whom were born in the country and emigrated to the USA. All three of them tell me that the narrative you're pushing is wrong. None of them think Ukraine wanted to be invaded by Russia, and all of them are vehemently opposed to Russia occupying any part of their country. That's as close as I can get to first-hand knowledge of who's right and who's wrong here.

Expand full comment
DAR22's avatar

Given the fact that some important dates in recent Ukrainian history happened on or very close to my birthday – Yanukovych flees to Russia on February 22 and Putin invades Ukraine on February 24 - I was hoping that Trump’s promise to quickly end the war would follow this trend. As Ken has outlined here, that is increasingly unlikely. The number of dead and dying is beyond appalling and, unfortunately but understandably, has been overshadowed by the unbelievable savagery occurring in Gaza. It’s clear from the comments here -and I realize I'm late to the party - that it is unlikely that I will convince anyone who has decided to adopt and promote the narrative “of an evil, irrational, intrinsically expansionist Russia with a paranoid leader at its helm, opposed by a virtuous United States and Europe” that this “is a confused and strange confabulation, inconsistent with a whole series of directionally aligned events during the past 30 years—events whose significance and meaning should have been readily apparent” [Ben Abelow] but, to those of us who for years following the Maidan Coup had been reading the warnings of historians Stephen F. Cohen in columns written for The Nation and Gilbert Doctorow in columns written for antiwar.com; listening to interviews with and talks by Professors John Mearsheimer and Richard Sakwa; and even following the work of Russian hawk Fiona Hill, Russia’s invasion was entirely predictable. All I can do is urge you to consider the possibility that the actions of the United States and its Europe allies have had, and continue to have, a greater impact on Putin than those who are making gobs and gobs of money off this war would like you to believe. As for your claim in reference to the coup that “You and I will never know the inner details of what actually happened here, or who financed what,” plenty of excellent investigative journalism on the topic provides just such detail so, no, I’m not buying that.

In the end, it doesn’t matter who ends the killing, it needs to stop now.

Expand full comment
Tim Shaw's avatar

That's a really shitty take Klippenstein. Trumps suggestion rewards Putin for invading Ukraine, killing and kidnapping Ukrainians including women and children. You take that clown Dean Phillips opinion seriously? Seriously? I will not be renewing my subscription to your Substack.

Expand full comment
Ken Klippenstein's avatar

The point of the article is that Democrats should engage with the proposal so the Ukrainians get the best deal they can.

Expand full comment
B C's avatar

Isn't that hard when Trump can't be trusted to negotiate in good faith? Today he fully backed Putin's pretense for starting the war (because Ukraine wanted to join NATO) and said "this was not a good war to get into" when talking about Ukraine, not Russia. Has Trump ever cut a deal he didn't break?

What prevents Putin from taking chunks out of other neighbors, if the precedent is set that might makes right? A pinkie swear? Putin will Just the Tip until he's run out of men aged 18-65 to sacrifice.

Besides, on the central thesis of this article, what does it matter what the minority party thinks? They have no leverage in this debate. Your strength is often NOT focusing on the pointless news hits. The focus should be 100% on the current administration.

Expand full comment
Tim Shaw's avatar

What would be the point. Is anyone in the administration listening to Democrats?

Expand full comment
Ken Klippenstein's avatar

The audience for debating the specifics of the proposal isn’t Trump. It’s the public.

Expand full comment
Tim Shaw's avatar

They are not listening to the public either. Do you think that the public hasn't been commenting on all of musks actions. Thankfully the courts are slowing him some. Not however because of public sentiment, and the courts have no power that I'm aware of to affect foreign policy. Oh don't worry. bunch of reasonable citizens will start making a ruckus, but it will make no difference to Trump. Something else might, but not the citizenry.

Expand full comment
Patty Tanji's avatar

Agreed. Not liking the direction these writings are taking. A bit whiny - while the fascist takeover is in full swing.

Expand full comment
Aaron Murray's avatar

I’ll be renewing twice as much to offset whatever difference Tim thinks he’s making.

Expand full comment
Susan Becraft's avatar

Is it considered kidnapping when Ukrainian security forces wrestle men into death vans headed to the front?

Expand full comment
JennyStokes's avatar

Tim. You should be reading and listening more......obviously you just blindly support a party filled with corruption.

I am not a Trump supporter but 'give peace a chance.!

Imagine if the USA ever won a war.........would they give back the land they had won!

Expand full comment
Tim Shaw's avatar

It's not the United States war. Russia invaded Ukraine. We gave Ukraine weapons to defend themselves. If Trump gives Russia what it wants the Ukrainian people will further terrorized by Putin.

Expand full comment
JennyStokes's avatar

Propagandized to the limit..............have you just come of Twitter?

Expand full comment
User's avatar
Comment deleted
Feb 14Edited
Comment deleted
Expand full comment
Tim Shaw's avatar

Not sure if you remember who was President for four of those eight years Huffy? I suspect you are a bot, a troll, or at best a moron. I read your Grey Zone link, so moron it is!

Expand full comment
Daniel Larios's avatar

It’s a weird moment to whitewash what DOGE is doing and to give Trump his flowers for being a “peacemaker.” With al the legitimate threats to other sovereign nations Trump is currently making and not calling what DOGE is doing a coup, this article was a strange choice. I’m usually a fan but not this time. Please don’t do the Matt Taibbi, post-left turn.

Expand full comment
Clif Brown's avatar

Trump values human lives? Gaza.

Expand full comment
Ken Klippenstein's avatar

That's not the point - it's the shift in rhetoric that's interesting

Expand full comment
Dan's avatar

Sorry, Ken. That’s not interesting at all. It’s almost as interesting as Sen. Fetterman telling us all to calm down and not panic. Nothing to see here, just politics as usual.

Yeah, okay.

I’d rather focus on what is actually occurring in our government than what the minority party is saying or doing. We all know they haven’t found their footing to do battle with these assbites.

My opinion only.

Have a good evening.

Expand full comment
Clif Brown's avatar

but you know the old saying, "it's just rhetoric" meaning that there is nothing solid to what is being said, the words are used only to try to influence without anything behind them.

Expand full comment
Claire Phillips's avatar

I think the people responding to this article largely missed the point.

Expand full comment
kass's avatar

Largely trolls. Likely paid by us.

Expand full comment
Joy in HK fiFP's avatar

The idea that Russia would move from Ukraine and invade a NATO country makes clear that these Democrats have never once heard what the Russians have actually been saying for decades. The Russians do not want a NATO country on their borders. How could they achieve this clear goal by invading a NATO country, which not only is the thing, in itself, they don't want, but could only end with another NATO country on their border? Such people are braindead, and should not be listened to.

Expand full comment
Pierre's avatar

Please don't listen to the warmongers and (D)-defenders in the comments. Thanks for your reporting

Expand full comment
Larez121's avatar

Because it's true. Since the end of the Cold War Russia has been given promises by USA officially and unofficially that NATO wouldn't expand east. US and NATO lied over and over again. As NATO added more and more east bloc countries including former Soviet Republics, Russia complained, and said Ukraine was a red line. Why is Russia so concerned about Ukraine? Because it's where the very flat Asian steppes begin, a perfect place for an invading army. Napoleon and Hitler did just that. Both invasions killed millions of Russians.

USA didn't tolerate Cuba having Russian nukes and military. Why would Russia tolerate US nukes and military in Ukraine, historically their biggest geographical military weakness? Plus NATO has only been an offensive organization and tool of the US empire. It aided US invasions and bombing of Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, and Libya. The US Ruling Class wants to conquer Russia and balkanize it to exploit its estimated at a minimum $70 trillion worth of oil, gas, minerals, and metals.

Expand full comment
Claire Phillips's avatar

Endless war for endless peace, go figure.

Expand full comment
Ak's avatar

It is unwise to lend Trump and his admin any credibility either. They are experts in talking out of both sides of their mouths and often mean the opposite of what they say. I notice Hegseth doesn't say much about what he actually means. Granted, Democrats are ineffectual and miss the point, but it is hard to craft a message to counter the kind of double-speak and non-speak Republicans perfected (and Ds have gone along with). Ultimately, what I take away is that we can't trust anything our government says or does, and this is very bad.

Expand full comment
Boris Petrov's avatar

Thank you - very thoughtful and balanced summary. Democrats are obviously doing what Rogan described as “buffalo jump” into irrelevance.

Expand full comment
john newquist's avatar

I made a map of the rare Earth metals of Ukraine (if you are interested). Elon and Trump want the rare metals but Ukraine would have to have Donbas in control and give up Kursk to Russia. Trump has mentioned that the deal could be $500 billion. Because the Chinese control a lot of the rare earth metals at high prices that Elon and Trump are looking at. This is a place to get it cheap. They can trust zelensky and they can't trust Putin. So the objective is to get Russia get out of Donbas and take over Kurtz which Ukraine doesn't care about. Russia would be able to keep lugansk and Crimea. Vance talked about peacekeepers today. Because the money is huge at stake. They don't care about Russia at all. They care about the money they care about the rare Earth metals. it's better to have Ukraine in charge than Russia

Expand full comment
Ashe's avatar

Zelensky is now claiming he doesn’t know where $1 billion of weapons aid has gone. He said he did not receive it. Here are the Democrats including Bernie Sanders rejecting Ron Paul’s addendum to an enormous weapon spending bill to audit the Ukraine Weapons aid. The Senate Democrats reject, this audit along with other bills to audit the federal reserve and basically get rid of waste in spending.

https://nypost.com/2023/07/27/senate-dems-oppose-oversight-office-of-us-aid-for-ukraine/

Ken is right to point out that Trump is focusing on the daily loss of many thousands of lives, which is completely unnecessary.

Watch the video:

https://nypost.com/2023/07/27/senate-dems-oppose-oversight-office-of-us-aid-for-ukraine/

Expand full comment
Brandy's avatar

I don't care who supports saving more young and old from death and I don't really care why they support it. That's the difference between partisans and independents. I just want the wars to stop. Prolonging only gets more people killed. Ukraine has lost generations of men and for what? To end up in a stalemate. I support the end of war. Period.

Expand full comment
Tinuviel's avatar

Or Trump could simply tell Putin to get the heck out of another sovereign country’s territory, and back it up with a threat. For all his pushing against people and countries who don’t need it, like our allies and other elected officials, he isn’t using his position to effectively push against the ones he needs to. He isn’t working for justice the way he could, instead working at times against justice. Hopefully he realizes this soon and changes course, or is persuaded to by those he trusts. Never cater to bullies who want to take what isn’t theirs. That is a slippery sliding slope. A person can use mental gymnastics to work out anything they wish. But it doesn’t make it true. What is right and good? Who invaded who? Would we be ok with another country invading us? Obviously not. Putin is in the wrong. He is another Stalin or Lenin. He has been the “President” for over a quarter of a century now. They do not have term limits like we do. This isn’t the hopeful democratic Russia after the fall of the USSR with Gorbachev and Yeltsin. It is now closer to the tyranny that was present in the USSR. Wake up. When Putin first got in he pretended to like democracy. But clearly he was acting. Don’t forget he worked for the KGB.

Expand full comment
Larez121's avatar

Our corrupt government and media conveniently forget to mention that Afghanistan offered to hand over Osama Bin Laden. They wanted to avoid a US invasion. Russia's invasion IS illegal. As illegal as our invasions and occupations of Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria.

So why did Russia invade? Because we couped Ukraine in 2014, the Maidan Coup. Ukraine's Zelensky is a US puppet. Russia has tried peaceful ways, like the Minsk Accords. But the US puppets in Ukraine since 2014 refuse to implement the Minsk Accords.

It's an apt comparison. Russia knows NATO countries host US missiles and military. They have good reason to be wary because US is building missile sites in Poland and already have missiles and miliary in the Baltic NATO countries. Added with the fact Ukraine is their biggest geograhical weakness, Russia chose war after eight years of negotiations that went nowhere.

Expand full comment