Well we didn’t want to hurt Joe Bidens feelings ok? With the dems it’s always “her time” or “his time” fuck that. They’ve got their next 5 candidates planned out and they all suck.
It’s almost like it’s a process to weed out weak candidates and to find out who the electorate wants to vote for. What we talking about, this is crazy and would never work.
I happen to agree with Pelosi. But given the scale of the defeat (not just the WH, but also Congress), I wonder whether any Democrat could have beaten Trump. To be sure, someone other than Harris could have made a more plausible break from the current Administration, but this election took place against a huge backdrop of global voter dissatisfaction with incumbents. Inflation as a factor proved to be far more powerful and the Dems had to wear that.
I'm not a Trump supporter by any means, but the inconvenient truth is that until the pandemic, the Trump years brought income gains for American workers, and COVID-19 relief reinforced those gains; but then price increases took them away. Meanwhile, the Federal Reserve fed a “wealth-effect” boom in consumption by the rich, and then high interest rates froze the housing market for everyone else.
Kamala was WAY ahead in the polls when she was giving populist messages, denouncing CEO's, and promoting people like Walz and Fein. Her support went down once she started hiding Walz, campaigning with Cheney, and boasting about having the support of billionaires. And if she had come out against the wars, she would have gained 10 points in the polls.
Trump is eminently beatable, if you even try to give people what they want.
It's a fair question, but there are Dems who could have run as outsiders and possibly avoided being associated with unpopular Biden policies, particularly if they criticized those policies bluntly. I kinda like Sherrod Brown, though he lost his Senate race this time, so I can't say strongly that he was the answer.
And judging from the online reaction, the conclusion seems to be that the voters are the problem, not the candidate. So presumably the answer is to reduce the influence of the voters in the process.
The DNC itself -- 400+ members -- just sits there while leadership makes the decisions. Not good. A democratic open process didn't have to be a primary - it could have been something like what Zogby and Carville suggested (each a different take on "open it up").
A party called the democrats failed to have a true primary from the jump. I've never forgotten Simone Sanders saying that Biden had decided to run for a second term and mocking the suggestion of having a primary. Dean Phillips was even running on a "I am a younger version of Biden" type campaign, but the Democratic machine shut everyone out in order to ensure that Biden won "the primary" - despite the public consistently saying that Biden was too old. I can't help but wonder how different things might have been had the primary process actually been permitted to occur.
Good that Pelosi stepped up, this may start a much needed conversation. Personally I feel the leadership should resign based on their repeated failure. Bernie had a thoughtful critique, Harrison’s response that was BS. The Democratic leadership is about the money and the failing consultants take 15%. The focus needs to shift from donors to voters. Harris shifted from a message of hope and weird to make sure to message donors egos. Mainstream media loves their paid advertisements. Senate and house leadership suck, the DNC needs to be reconstituted with voter focus with no donor money allowed. Focus on passing legislation that all voters support, paid family leave, universal health care, gun control, voting rights. I am a dreamer.
Great read. This lines up with what was said by some voters interviewed in the Run-up by Astead Herndon. The last few episodes of that podcast were quite interesting.
Let's go beyond what Pelosi has said and suggest that the Democratic Party needs to be, well, democratic. See James Zogby's interview with Peter Beinart where he suggests a process, and also recall James Carville's suggestion for a process. Maybe now, Democrats should be holding a lot of town halls to ask actual people what they want. I've also suggested in these pages that all Democrats withdraw their membership in the party. For now, just a shot over the bow. But everyone is so busy blaming each other, they can't focus on the process as the culprit.
Agree with the thought, however, those in control will not do it. The Republicans did so in 2008 or 20012. Dem leaders aren't smart enough or brave enough to do so
Primary, schimary. If the candidate ain't talking to the things that matter most (living wage, medicare for all, show up in North Carolina after biblical floods, stop arming Israel) it wouldn't matter. Why doesn't Pelosi leave the arena? Really, she is part of the problem.
Imagine that Biden actually resigned in 2022 and made Harris the president: she could have both run the country and participated in primaries....But any such hypothetical assumes any of these Corporate Dems care at all about voters more than donors, which they do not, including Feinstein-cover-upping Pelosi. It's CYA all the way down.
I don't remember a robust primary in 2020. I remember Bernie leading the first 3 primaries (and on track to beat Trump) while Biden ran out of money and Harris dropped out of the race. Only to have the party (led by Obama) coordinate against him with the rest of the candidates dropping out to endorse Biden in unison. I also remember the issues with the ballot counting in Iowa due to an app that had been developed/paid for by Biden and Buttigieg. I would love to see a Democratic primary that was actually democratic.
I just read somewhere that in mid-2022, only 26% of Democrats wanted Biden to run again. I'll repeat that so it sinks in: 2½ years ago, ¾ of _Democrats_ wanted Biden to pass the torch.
I thought he did a lot of good things, but as far as I'm concerned, he owns this loss as much as he owns his 2020 win.
Pelosi is correct. I seriously doubt that Harris would have won a primary.
I agree.
Well we didn’t want to hurt Joe Bidens feelings ok? With the dems it’s always “her time” or “his time” fuck that. They’ve got their next 5 candidates planned out and they all suck.
Yup. Elections are good actually?
It’s almost like it’s a process to weed out weak candidates and to find out who the electorate wants to vote for. What we talking about, this is crazy and would never work.
you got a source for that??
I happen to agree with Pelosi. But given the scale of the defeat (not just the WH, but also Congress), I wonder whether any Democrat could have beaten Trump. To be sure, someone other than Harris could have made a more plausible break from the current Administration, but this election took place against a huge backdrop of global voter dissatisfaction with incumbents. Inflation as a factor proved to be far more powerful and the Dems had to wear that.
I'm not a Trump supporter by any means, but the inconvenient truth is that until the pandemic, the Trump years brought income gains for American workers, and COVID-19 relief reinforced those gains; but then price increases took them away. Meanwhile, the Federal Reserve fed a “wealth-effect” boom in consumption by the rich, and then high interest rates froze the housing market for everyone else.
Kamala was WAY ahead in the polls when she was giving populist messages, denouncing CEO's, and promoting people like Walz and Fein. Her support went down once she started hiding Walz, campaigning with Cheney, and boasting about having the support of billionaires. And if she had come out against the wars, she would have gained 10 points in the polls.
Trump is eminently beatable, if you even try to give people what they want.
It's a fair question, but there are Dems who could have run as outsiders and possibly avoided being associated with unpopular Biden policies, particularly if they criticized those policies bluntly. I kinda like Sherrod Brown, though he lost his Senate race this time, so I can't say strongly that he was the answer.
And of course the irony is that the Republicans actually had a competitive primary.
feel like a party called the democrats should be open to democratic primaries?
That's crazy talk.
And judging from the online reaction, the conclusion seems to be that the voters are the problem, not the candidate. So presumably the answer is to reduce the influence of the voters in the process.
The DNC itself -- 400+ members -- just sits there while leadership makes the decisions. Not good. A democratic open process didn't have to be a primary - it could have been something like what Zogby and Carville suggested (each a different take on "open it up").
A party called the democrats failed to have a true primary from the jump. I've never forgotten Simone Sanders saying that Biden had decided to run for a second term and mocking the suggestion of having a primary. Dean Phillips was even running on a "I am a younger version of Biden" type campaign, but the Democratic machine shut everyone out in order to ensure that Biden won "the primary" - despite the public consistently saying that Biden was too old. I can't help but wonder how different things might have been had the primary process actually been permitted to occur.
Good that Pelosi stepped up, this may start a much needed conversation. Personally I feel the leadership should resign based on their repeated failure. Bernie had a thoughtful critique, Harrison’s response that was BS. The Democratic leadership is about the money and the failing consultants take 15%. The focus needs to shift from donors to voters. Harris shifted from a message of hope and weird to make sure to message donors egos. Mainstream media loves their paid advertisements. Senate and house leadership suck, the DNC needs to be reconstituted with voter focus with no donor money allowed. Focus on passing legislation that all voters support, paid family leave, universal health care, gun control, voting rights. I am a dreamer.
Was honestly stunned by the arrogance of Harrison's response.
Wasn’t she the mob boss who intimidated her representatives to unquestioningly toe the line on practically everything?
‘You need to pass the bill to find out what’s in it.’?
She trained them well.
Reap what you sow.
Sorry. Not sorry.
I loved that closing line, Mr. Klippenstein! That was a great article.
Glad you liked it!
But if there had been a primary a candidate may have emerged who could not be fully controlled by Obama ...
Jaw-dropping that Pelosi has the gall to say this *now.* Where was she six months ago?
JFC. She gets zero cookies.
RFK Jr. and Shanahan might have stayed in the Democratic Party and they may have pulled in more independents.
Great read. This lines up with what was said by some voters interviewed in the Run-up by Astead Herndon. The last few episodes of that podcast were quite interesting.
Thanks! Ya, it seems like common sense that people resent having no say in the nominee.
Let's go beyond what Pelosi has said and suggest that the Democratic Party needs to be, well, democratic. See James Zogby's interview with Peter Beinart where he suggests a process, and also recall James Carville's suggestion for a process. Maybe now, Democrats should be holding a lot of town halls to ask actual people what they want. I've also suggested in these pages that all Democrats withdraw their membership in the party. For now, just a shot over the bow. But everyone is so busy blaming each other, they can't focus on the process as the culprit.
Agree with the thought, however, those in control will not do it. The Republicans did so in 2008 or 20012. Dem leaders aren't smart enough or brave enough to do so
Primary, schimary. If the candidate ain't talking to the things that matter most (living wage, medicare for all, show up in North Carolina after biblical floods, stop arming Israel) it wouldn't matter. Why doesn't Pelosi leave the arena? Really, she is part of the problem.
Imagine that Biden actually resigned in 2022 and made Harris the president: she could have both run the country and participated in primaries....But any such hypothetical assumes any of these Corporate Dems care at all about voters more than donors, which they do not, including Feinstein-cover-upping Pelosi. It's CYA all the way down.
I don't remember a robust primary in 2020. I remember Bernie leading the first 3 primaries (and on track to beat Trump) while Biden ran out of money and Harris dropped out of the race. Only to have the party (led by Obama) coordinate against him with the rest of the candidates dropping out to endorse Biden in unison. I also remember the issues with the ballot counting in Iowa due to an app that had been developed/paid for by Biden and Buttigieg. I would love to see a Democratic primary that was actually democratic.
I just read somewhere that in mid-2022, only 26% of Democrats wanted Biden to run again. I'll repeat that so it sinks in: 2½ years ago, ¾ of _Democrats_ wanted Biden to pass the torch.
I thought he did a lot of good things, but as far as I'm concerned, he owns this loss as much as he owns his 2020 win.